Cycling UK Forum

Re the extant car; like many popular cars the Vauxhall diesels from around this time have shown many possible faults.

On the face of it the diagnosis you have been given seems reasonable but there are some possibilities for this behaviour that are worth investigating.

On some diesel models excessive oil consumption and crankcase pressurisation can occur because the piston rings have never seated correctly. [this is often attributed to incorrect bore honing when the engine was built, but (weirdly) even if the honing is OK the rings may not seal if the engine isn't driven hard enough in the first 1000 miles or so from new- this is when the coating on new piston rings has a chance to be worn in by the honing, and once the honing is smoothed off, the rings may then never seal perfectly.] Some folk have tried a dose of running-in oil (and harder running) to correct this fault even on higher mileage engines but I don't know how effective this is likely to be on these engines.

Another fault on some of these motors is that the oil takes a while to drain out of the head and this can lead to some owners topping up the oil too much if they dip it when the engine is still hot. Really the oil should be checked cold on these motors. Once there is too much oil in an engine, it'll come out somewhere and the exact source is not always clear because of the airflow within the engine bay.

It is not unknown for engines to develop multiple oil leaks if the type of (often synthetic) oil is changed; it is believed that some oils cause slight seal swelling (which is OK) but others don't, and changing from the former to the latter can cause oil leaks to develop. I don't know which oils are likely to cause this behaviour but it may be worth reverting to a previous oil type if you have been using something different more recently.

On diesel cars that are not often driven hard there are other faults that can occur. Firstly the turbo will tend to have deposits in/near it that will come out of the tailpipe the first time the engine sees high revs/load. So before an MOT I would take the car for a good thrash just to clear the crud out of the turbo. However if the engine is burning oil (for whatever reason) then some smoke seems inevitable. Just be sure that it isn't a faulty EGR valve that is causing a problem; I don't think there is an EGR valve built yet that is incapable of causing all kinds of weird issues.

Finally there is another possible reason for the oil leaks, being that the oil pressure is simply too high for some of the time. On an engine which isn't driven hard, but has extended oil drain intervals, it is quite possible for the oil pressure relief valve to fail shut. This will cause oil to wee out of places it shouldn't (and the crank seals are top of the list) when the engine is cold, but less so when the engine is hot and the oil thins out. If it were my car I'd check the oil pressure if it were possible to do so, or perhaps simply strip and overhaul the oil pressure relief valve as a precaution.

Bloomin' cars, eh....

hth

cheers

Brucey wrote:Re the extant car; like many popular cars the Vauxhall diesels from around this time have shown many possible faults.

On the face of it the diagnosis you have been given seems reasonable but there are some possibilities for this behaviour that are worth investigating.

On some diesel models excessive oil consumption and crankcase pressurisation can occur because the piston rings have never seated correctly. [this is often attributed to incorrect bore honing when the engine was built, but (weirdly) even if the honing is OK the rings may not seal if the engine isn't driven hard enough in the first 1000 miles or so from new- this is when the coating on new piston rings has a chance to be worn in by the honing, and once the honing is smoothed off, the rings may then never seal perfectly.] Some folk have tried a dose of running-in oil (and harder running) to correct this fault even on higher mileage engines but I don't know how effective this is likely to be on these engines.

Another fault on some of these motors is that the oil takes a while to drain out of the head and this can lead to some owners topping up the oil too much if they dip it when the engine is still hot. Really the oil should be checked cold on these motors. Once there is too much oil in an engine, it'll come out somewhere and the exact source is not always clear because of the airflow within the engine bay.

It is not unknown for engines to develop multiple oil leaks if the type of (often synthetic) oil is changed; it is believed that some oils cause slight seal swelling (which is OK) but others don't, and changing from the former to the latter can cause oil leaks to develop. I don't know which oils are likely to cause this behaviour but it may be worth reverting to a previous oil type if you have been using something different more recently.

On diesel cars that are not often driven hard there are other faults that can occur. Firstly the turbo will tend to have deposits in/near it that will come out of the tailpipe the first time the engine sees high revs/load. So before an MOT I would take the car for a good thrash just to clear the crud out of the turbo. However if the engine is burning oil (for whatever reason) then some smoke seems inevitable. Just be sure that it isn't a faulty EGR valve that is causing a problem; I don't think there is an EGR valve built yet that is incapable of causing all kinds of weird issues.

Finally there is another possible reason for the oil leaks, being that the oil pressure is simply too high for some of the time. On an engine which isn't driven hard, but has extended oil drain intervals, it is quite possible for the oil pressure relief valve to fail shut. This will cause oil to wee out of places it shouldn't (and the crank seals are top of the list) when the engine is cold, but less so when the engine is hot and the oil thins out. If it were my car I'd check the oil pressure if it were possible to do so, or perhaps simply strip and overhaul the oil pressure relief valve as a precaution.

Bloomin' cars, eh....

hth

cheers

On an older car engine we can all be tolerant of a small amount of oil seepage as long as its not having to top it up every 200mls. Prior to the MOT my car used around 1 litre of oil every 18k and that fitted with the owners handbook stating useage. They're not a bad engine and for close to 190k it still runs quietly and smoothly, it has a nice exhaust burble. You can get an additive that swells oil seals but if the pressure is too high thats like putting a hanky on a cut artery . There are several leakage points as you mention another of which is chain tensioner plug, the way its being sprayed around the engine bay to me it points to crankshaft seal. I get bally annoyed when going to garage for a service and finding an overfilled sump! It can't be difficult to look up the sump capacity and underfill then slowly add until at max mark of dipstick. If the engine is revved hard the force of the big ends hitting the oil surface does no good.

Talking of dipsticks my car was having starting issues several years ago with a fault code appearing and entering limp home. I took it to local garage for code to be read ( you can get nice cheap readers on amazon etc nowadays ), he came back "errr P0400 its your EGR valve". He said "I'll get a price for the part"..... £300+ incl vat then labour to fit.... I said "well should we not look at whats actuating the valve to trace through to find the cause"........ He replied "Look I've told you what it is and I've given the price thats what the diagnostics is telling me". Anyway I went to a diesel specialist as limp home was driveable and he said "I've never changed a vectra egr valve it'll be a vac pipe" ( the vectra uses a vacuum system for a number of components, good idea but if it leaks all those are affected ). Well £60 later and 5yrs down the line all is well, it was the vac pipe for the recirculating air control on the heater...... not a place you'd expect a fault indicating EGR valve to be but all part of the vac system, we simply bypassed it for me to fix if need be. Sadly too many people don't fault find they take the diagnostic code to indicate the cause rather than the effect as the first garage did..... if, as many would have done, the job had been undertaken then there'd be a £450 cash outflow and still the same fault! Once you find a good garage/mechanic keep them they're like good dentists and hairdressers..... go to a bad one and you can be in a right mess.

One nice aspect of diesel is that you can spill it on your garage floor and not fear switching the garage light on, its a pleasantly inert fuel. Also being able to run some diesels on recycled chip pan oil etc.... so flexible. But sadly pollution wise they're getting a bad reputation now, such a shame being one of the most efficient IC technologies, something like 50% versus 25-35% for petrol. In favour of electric motors, producing max torque from 0rpm upward on a brushless DC motor is pretty good.... thats why hybrids such as the vauxhall ampera are nice, fully electric but with the IC generator charging the batteries for those holidays to far off places. Normal everyday commuting its simply a plug in electric vehicle. Its a shame that we did not set up a government programme to develop a car with such technology aimed at joe public, say £10k brand new. Not unlike Hitler and the VW Beetle, to create a mass produced low cost range extended hybrid avoiding the profiteering of the big auto companies requiring first adopters to get the market moving. Yes I know we can all cycle to work.......

So we've gone from fitting a bike in a car to the design of modern hybrids? , even a mention of Hitler.... well Yesterday channel has him on 50% of the time .

I have a Skoda Superb estate with a 2.0 litre deisel engine. On motorway journeys I'm getting 58 mpg. The boot area is easily long enough to take a bike with room to spare but is slightly narrower than you'd expect due to the wheel arches at the rear. Its a very comfortable car to drive.

I once drove a skoda octavia hire car for several hundred miles, it was very good. Other standout cars were Focus and Mondeo with the peugeot 307 also being pleasant on longer distance. The mondeo diesel hire car returned 64mpg tank to tank fillup but that was pretty well 90% A-roads( 2ltr ), the best I ever returned on a car. Modern diesels can return some good economy but factoring in other diesel associated costs lends itself to higher mileage use. Artificial in many ways due to market demand etc.
One car that I had as a hire car about 5-10 times was the vauxhall zafira...... if any vehicle has lent itself to pedestrian/cyclist fatalities and injuries I suspect its that thing. The A-pillar blind spot was frightening to say the least, so on approach to roundabouts and other hazards the A-pillar created a zone of invisibility..... well done design team what the hell were you thinking about other than driving in straight lines. I mentioned this in passing to our receptionist and she said "thats exactly what my husband complained about" so I wasn't alone. I think its a height issue as she said she had no issue but was about 5ft tall so seat much closer into the steering/windscreen.

old_windbag wrote:Hi. I'm currently driving a 13yr old car ( vectra B ) that may be mechanically in a bad way. This was following the MOT emissions test which I personally feel is not mechanically sympathetic to older engines, but thats another subject. This car comfortably accepts my bike with front wheel off and seats down. If I have to change my car then I'd be looking at either a Mk7 ford fiesta( aston martin style grill 2013- ) or ford focus 2013- . The focus should accept a bike similarly to the vectra but its disadvantages wrt the fiesta are lower fuel economy, higher insurance group and small amount of VED. The fiesta clearly can take a bike with both wheels off and seats down but does anyone know from owning one if it will take a bike wth only front wheel off, or is it too small ( this is a bike with mudguards on as well ). With mudguards it means even with both wheels off you still have the same length to push in even with rear wheel out and front fork has limited rotation due to mudguard.... they work for their role but are a bl**dy nuisance in this circumstance. I'm not keen on mounting a bike on a rear/roof rack and a bike bag/case means having to un-torque stem etc plus mudguard issues again.
So any info from focus/fiesta owners who do put bikes in and also the type/size of bike would be appreciated. If I can save the vectra that'll be good but if not these two models are the cars that interest me.

I have a road bike, 52cm size. And that can go into my Mk 7 Fiesta with both wheels on. Obviously you're going to need to put both back seats down, and push the passenger seat forward as far as it will go. Then push the bike in rear wheel first so the rear wheel is right up to the back of the passenger seat, then with a bit of wiggling it'll just about fit - just be careful closing the boot.

Obviously it's easier with the front wheel off, but I'm lazy . I wouldn't want to transport my bike like that every day, I do worry about it bouncing if I hit a big pothole for example, but it's fine for going to sportives etc.

PS. I've had my bike in the car with me and my wife in the front and our daughter in the back, had to take both wheels off, and it was a tight squeeze but it worked.

old_windbag wrote: One car that I had as a hire car about 5-10 times was the vauxhall zafira...... if any vehicle has lent itself to pedestrian/cyclist fatalities and injuries I suspect its that thing. The A-pillar blind spot was frightening to say the least, so on approach to roundabouts and other hazards the A-pillar created a zone of invisibility..... well done design team what the hell were you thinking about other than driving in straight lines. I mentioned this in passing to our receptionist and she said "thats exactly what my husband complained about" so I wasn't alone. I think its a height issue as she said she had no issue but was about 5ft tall so seat much closer into the steering/windscreen.

They were thinking about meeting roll-over and crush requirements. the Zafira isn't the only car on the market with that problem.

Hi Vorpal I'd happily crush all Zafiras( without occupants ) I dreaded when enterprise would turn up with my vehicle.... basically cars were grouped A,B,C etc and the zafira was treat the same as a mondeo, I suggested they have a category people carrier for such vehicles but I was lumbered many a time with it. I also think estate cars are sensible design as opposed to the trend for nissan jukes, renault captur etc pitched at the go-pro/red bull generation ... though I thought younger people being active was an issue at present according to the media. I've had a nissan x-trail several times and the boot was tiny compared to vectra/mondeo so unless you kicked out the rear seat passengers luggage carrying was an issue. The trend for pumped up SUV's and enlargened versions of smaller cars ( mini countryman, fiat 500 etc ) is disturbing and aesthetically unpleasant . Surprisingly the focus is the same length as my Vectra.... so medium sized car is now as big as saloon car of 15yrs go, I think the fiesta has grown to escort size of 80's.

Good that the Fiesta can take a bike with rear wheel on, I suspect two wheels off is the optimum for the fiesta and may not be a deal breaker for the amount of times needed to do it, its not a regular event. We need car designers who are cyclists or a bike/pram/buggy luggage standard that manufacturers adhere to, to demonstrate their car boot capability in their brochures in addition to the normal litres method.

Vorpal the transmissions issue seems to be with the double clutch auto transmission system as opposed to manual. In praise of my vectra B, the one clarkson really hated, I've only had new disks on the front at 187500mls and still on original clutch.... affected by driving style I know but still not bad.

Update: I've just done a quick internet search on the blind spot issue and yes it's not just me and yes Vorpal it seems several designs suffer similarly ..... not good

I hired a new Fiesta last year in Mallorca. We got two road bikes in there with the front wheels removed. No problem.

That sounds pretty positive for the fiesta.... I spoke to a salesman at a garage a few days ago who loomed up behind me like the prince of darkness. As I looked at the boot of said car I mentioned "I believe you can get a bike in with the seats down with front wheel off".... he frowned and said "well bikes must be getting smaller nowadays" in a sarcastic manner. Ahh the art of sales technique .

a friend of mine bought a fiesta a couple of years ago and despite the fact that she doesn't race about the place, she doesn't get anywhere near the claimed fuel consumption. Had she known what the actual consumption was going to be, she'd have bought something else.

Note that if your vehicle doesn't meet the claimed consumption figures, there isn't necessarily much in the way of comeback; they have lots of weasel words....

cheers

Postboxer wrote:I've tried doing google image searches in the past along the lines of 'bike in back of a ......' and there may be some out there, gives you some idea.

And if it only shows pictures of bikes ON the back of a car, should we be worried?

People who only take the front wheel off... Is the bike stood up shomehow, or lain on its side? If on its side, forks pointing down, right?

yes the ecoboosts ( fords small turbo engine, similar to VW TSI series ) aren't returning anywhere near the figures they claim. They're around 70% of the figure, if you look at they american EPA figures they perhaps are more realistic. The measurement method used say 15 years ago was truer to real life and could be matched somehow the method used now must be different so as to produce valid figures but unachievable in real world driving, even if driving like a saint. The figures help the mpg war of the competing manufacturers now we place this as very important in our purchase as with others such as the car having to have bluetooth to talk to my smartphone( the one I don't have )... really.

old_windbag wrote:Vorpal the transmissions issue seems to be with the double clutch auto transmission system as opposed to manual. In praise of my vectra B, the one clarkson really hated, I've only had new disks on the front at 187500mls and still on original clutch.... affected by driving style I know but still not bad.

Update: I've just done a quick internet search on the blind spot issue and yes it's not just me and yes Vorpal it seems several designs suffer similarly ..... not good

I had a reliability report a few days ago that included some Fords and I noted a high rate of transmission failures. I didn't look into the detail. It's good they don't seem to affect the cars you are considering.

The A pillar blind spot issue is another one of those things that has made the occupants of cars safer, and vulnerable road users less so.

I can't remember if we turned the forks upside down or what but we did not have any problems and that is with two bikes. One of which, mine, was an XL frame. Plus two big adults sat in the front. I have my seat all the way back as I'm very long legged. On another note I was not that impressed with the Fiesta. Found it very underpowered compared with my 1.3 old Yaris at home. I found the new Clio I hired in Ireland this year to be a nicer car. I normally steer, [see what I did there ] away from owning French cars but wonder if they have improved. Are they Nissan these days?

My Fiesta 1.0 petrol gets 45mpg on normal driving. Up to 60mpg if I'm canny.